Doing Daily

Jonathan Stark:
Graham, welcome to the show.

Graham McGregor:
Hey Jonathan, great to be here.

Jonathan Stark:
So for folks who are just hearing your name for the first time, could you tell us a little bit about who you are and what you do?

Graham McGregor:
Yeah, I'm a sales and marketing advisor based in New Zealand. I've been involved in, I guess, sales and marketing all my life for about 47 years now. And I specialize in working with a wide range of companies, particularly those that sell services to help them, if you'd like, attract new clients doing slightly unconventional types of marketing.

Jonathan Stark:
Cool, and how long have you been running a daily list?

Graham McGregor:
about four years now.

Jonathan Stark:
Wow, that's great. Who's the intended audience?

Graham McGregor:
Basically it's business owners who are potentially interested in my services. I've got, at the moment, have subscribers in 24 countries. I don't have a massive list, it's under 5 ,000, but I've got people all around the world that like to listen or like to read what I send out.

Jonathan Stark:
Perfect. What's your promise to them, whether it's implicit or explicit, kind of like give me two minutes a day and I'll educate you about this, that, or the other?

Graham McGregor:
Yeah, I guess my promise is that I'll send you daily marketing email tips, something that you can use that's simple, that's often entertaining, that's fun, and it's something that'll get you quick results.

Jonathan Stark:
Sounds great. So four years ago, what caused you to start a daily list?

Graham McGregor:
Well, at that point, I tried different types of emails in terms of the frequency. I tried a monthly email for a long time and I used to send out a monthly email that was about 10 pages long. It was like almost like a mini, mini little booklet. And then I switched to once a week a few years later and it took a long time. And then I basically what happened is I think I joined your list about 2019 and a list of about two or three other people that were sending out daily emails.

Jonathan Stark:
Mm

Graham McGregor:
And I thought, let's see what these things are like. Daily emails, I think that's too much, but I'll give it a go. And six months later, out of the four, I think, daily email lists that I joined, I was still reading and enjoying three of them, including yours. And I thought, hmm, that's interesting. So I'm still enjoying this after six months getting daily emails from three different people. Maybe I should try it myself.

Jonathan Stark:
Thanks.

Jonathan Stark:
Were you nervous at all about switching to daily?

Graham McGregor:
I was, I thought what's going to happen is everyone going to unsubscribe. so, but I started off by doing daily during the business week. So I did daily Monday to Friday, then didn't do it on the weekend. So I did that. I found as I expected a number of people unsubscribed in my first month of doing this. people just say, take me off your list, click unsubscribe. But then that settled down after a month.

And what I found is people started emailing me back and it became more conversational. So rather than me just sending out an email once a week or once a month and never really hearing back from people, I started to get into conversation, if you like, building a relationship with people. And then about a year later, decided, heck with it, I'll just do it every day of the week, not just Monday to Friday. So I said, we'll do it every day. Just as easy. And the results have been fantastic, I have to say.

Jonathan Stark:
Yeah, that's my next question. What benefits have you gotten from doing it?

Graham McGregor:
What I've noticed is that I've got to know a lot of the people on my list really well because they email me, they ask questions, they comment on what I've said, we share interesting things we have in common. I try everything that I send out each day. Whatever I'm talking about, I try to have a marketing or a sales lesson in there. But I often also talk about my daily life, what's going on. I used to be a cyclist. I've had a few involuntary dismounts as a cyclist. That means you come off your bike and

Jonathan Stark:
Yeah

Graham McGregor:
crash on concrete and break a few bones or do a few bits of pieces of damage to yourself. So when I talked about coming off a bike one time, I made it a lesson about looking for the positive thing, positive side of life, even when negative things happen. And I had people emailing me from all around the world, wishing me well, but talking about some of their own cycling experiences. one subscriber said, look, if you ever in France, look me up, I'll take you out for a ride with the group that I'm involved with. So you kind of make friends.

Jonathan Stark:
Mm

Graham McGregor:
It's conversational, it's backwards and forwards like a conversation rather than you just sending out something once a month or once a week and never hearing back from people.

Jonathan Stark:
Exactly. Do you imagine ever stopping doing the daily list?

Graham McGregor:
No, no, I found it was interesting. I found that even when I'm not feeling particularly well for whatever reason, I might have the flu or something else going on. I still really look forward to sending out my daily emails.

Jonathan Stark:
Yep, same here. That's great. Well, let's let's get tactical and talk about the mechanics of how you produce your messages. You said you write seven days a week, but do you write them on the day and send them or do you batch them and have them ready to go out, like schedule them in advance?

Graham McGregor:
Well, what I do is that I've been writing sales and marketing tips, advice, books, guides for many articles for many years now. So often what I do is I tend to write daily, like I tend to do the email each day. But I'll often use as a seed, you like, something I've already written. So I might have written an idea about, I don't know, let's say how to get testimonials. And then I might take a

content from that or maybe a story that happened to me a few years ago then I'll tie it in with something that's happening right now and use it. I've got to the point now I can actually write a 700 word email if I want to go that long in about 15 minutes because I've done it so many times from scratch but I often use something that I've already written and then just make it current in some way. So for example, let's say five years ago I was driving down the road and I saw a man walking on the side of the road

Jonathan Stark:
Hmm

Graham McGregor:
with an orange road cone on his head. It's pretty bizarre. Only time I've ever seen that. I'm thinking, I still remember it five years later. I have no idea why he was doing that, but it stood out and I got remembered. So that example there, I might talk about, well, that was an interesting example. How can you stand out and get remembered in your own business? Well, here's one idea. So it might give an idea on how to stand out and get remembered in their own business. What about, don't wear a road cone on your head? Why not try this instead?

Jonathan Stark:
Yeah. So you said, it normal for it to take about 15 minutes?

Graham McGregor:
Yeah, generally about 15 minutes. Sometimes if I'm under pressure, sometimes what I have found is that it's quite useful even to use an identical email that you've sent out in the past. So you might, I've got a list of quite a few thousand emails that I've sent out. So I'm thinking, you know what? It's January now. I've written a lot of January messages for people talking about how do they can make sales and get started in January. What did I write two years, three years, four years ago in January?

He's a really good one and you can actually send it out again because people won't remember that you they sent it out four years ago but even if they did it's a good reminder because often you need to relearn things that you have heard before you're just not using or you've forgotten

Jonathan Stark:
Right.

Jonathan Stark:
Totally. Is there a particular time of day that you write or you just kind of wait for the inspiration to strike?

Graham McGregor:
I try and mix it up a little bit, so sometimes I'll send it out first thing in the morning, sometimes I'll send it out last thing at night. I try to make it bit, and also I try and vary the messages. I try and have some that are super short, some might only be, let's say, three or four paragraphs long. I might ask them a question, I might ask them for feedback on something, and some of them, sometimes I have written emails that are thousand or even 1 ,500 words long on a particular topic.

So, it varies.

Jonathan Stark:
Is there a particular place you write like the your desk or the kitchen table or something?

Graham McGregor:
Pretty well, I've got a home office, which I'll often write at, but I've got a computer and I'll often sit at my kitchen table and write emails on my kitchen table as well. I just quite enjoy that.

Jonathan Stark:
Is it usually on your laptop? what software and device combination do you use to write? Like does it vary? Do you sometimes use your phone?

Graham McGregor:
I just, yeah, I just use a very basic or very simple email, email program called MailChimp. I just write basically straight into that or I'll copy and paste something into that and then edit it and just kind of press send. Occasionally, if I'm doing a promotion, I might have three or four emails that go out in a row, one each day, say for three or four days promoting some particular service or product or offer that I have.

In which case, I will often write those emails in advance. So here's three emails that are going to go out maybe next weekend. This is going on Friday, Saturday, Sunday. That's the timeframe. So sometimes I will write them in advance so they're ready to go. But I'll offer, I guess what I've found is that it's actually a lot easier to write a daily email than it is a weekly or even a monthly email because there's so much you could say. It's a matter of what you don't say because you've got to

You got a hundred things you could say today. What's interesting, what's happened that you could just talk about. And I kind of look for messages that are going to be really helpful for my subscribers, but they're going to be also interesting. They're going to be memorable. In my case, I'm a big fan of positive quotes. Quotes from famous people, quotes from dead people. My motivation of quotes of all sorts. So every single email that I send out,

Jonathan Stark:
I know, it's crazy.

Jonathan Stark:
Okay.

Graham McGregor:
I've done this for years. I always finish with a positive quote from somebody somewhere that ties in if you like with the message that I'm sending out and that well, there's quotes all over the place. What I typically do, let's say I'm writing a message about, I don't know, taking action. I'll just do a quick Google search often. I'll go top 25 quotes on taking action, something like that. Go back quick little look.

Jonathan Stark:
Where do you keep those?

Jonathan Stark:
Okay.

Graham McGregor:
Well, that's good. Bang. And I've usually got a quote in about 15 seconds that I can find. That's copy and paste, put it in. So it's pretty easy to find quotes with a quick search. Literally, you can do it in like 15 to 30 seconds.

Jonathan Stark:
And you said you're using Mailchimp. Is there anything that you particularly like or dislike about that?

Graham McGregor:
Well, what I do with MailChimp, they've got all kinds of other features that are kind of, you don't need. I just want something that I can basically send out and it says, Dear John, Dear Fred, Dear Mary, that's personalized and it goes out. So it does that. It does a hundred other things as well that I don't bother with. So I send my emails out pretty well in a plain text type format. I never use pictures. I never use images. I just send out

a text email if you like or a written email and that seems to work fine.

Jonathan Stark:
Cool, have you always used MailChimp or did you switch to it from something else?

Graham McGregor:
I think I've always used Mailchimp for many years now.

Jonathan Stark:
and you send your messages out at different times, like you write it and just send it whenever.

Graham McGregor:
Exactly, or sometimes I'll write it, say I've got a message I'm going to write in about an hour's time, but I may not send it out for a couple of hours.

Jonathan Stark:
Okay. Have you ever missed a day and if you have, what do you do to deal with that? If anything.

Graham McGregor:
I have missed a couple of... in fact I missed a week at one point. I think what happened was really interesting.

about five or three and a half years ago, I suddenly had the urge to do nothing. I was, I don't know, I just, I didn't write, I didn't consult, I didn't do anything at all. And one of my clients phoned me from the States, one of my subscribers, said, Graham, are you all right? I haven't heard from you for a week. And I said, look, I just don't feel like doing anything. I've just never had this experience in my whole life. He said, Graham, you sound like you're depressed. and do something completely different you've never done before. So.

So I went and visited some friends that were about a four hour drive away. Packed up, went in to see them for three days, came back. I was inspired, I was different, I was like, I guess I must have been depressed or something I'd never experienced something like that before. So I missed those four days there. I think I missed also when my mother died about four or five years ago, I just couldn't write for a week. said, I told my subscribers, look guys, mum's died, can't write at the moment, I'll come back to you when I feel like it. So.

Jonathan Stark:
Hmm.

Jonathan Stark:
Hmm.

Jonathan Stark:
Wow.

Graham McGregor:
I have missed a couple of times, very, very seldom.

Jonathan Stark:
Wow. Okay.

Jonathan Stark:
Hang on. Okay, so do you ever go on vacation and warn people like, I'm gonna be on vacation and maybe schedule once for that period of time or do you write?

Graham McGregor:
Well no, I actually try and write, long as I've got internet connection somewhere. Like for example, last year I did a three week luxury cruise around the Mediterranean with my girlfriend. we were in Greece and Turkey and all kinds of interesting places. So we're on the ship for let's say 22 days I think it was. But we had internet connection there. So what I would do is I would write a message every day and I would tie it in with places that I was visiting, things that stood out, great service I got.

particular businesses. I'm finding as long as you have an internet connection, you can write even when you're on vacation. And I actually really enjoy writing. It's not like a hardship at all. So it'll be a hardship not to be able to write.

Jonathan Stark:
Exactly. Yeah. Yeah, that's the feeling that comes from it's like a meditation or something Okay, so let's pivot a little bit into some questions about the content itself. So How how do you come up with enough stuff to write about you should do a million ideas, but where do they come from?

Graham McGregor:
Well, they come from all sorts of sources. I'm a big reader of business and marketing books and ideas. I've interviewed a number of really interesting sales and marketing experts around the world over the years. And I guess after a while, I'm looking just unconsciously for interesting marketing ideas. And I try and keep it really simple. just say, well, there's only three things in marketing. There's attracting potential clients. So that's attract.

is converting some of those potential clients into paying customers. So they give you money, you're making sales, in other words, and then it's doing things to get repeat and referral business. And that's kind of growing, growing the value of the clients you have. And that's it. That's the three things we all do in marketing, but of course, in those three things. So I try and make sure everything I do in a message, it's talking about either how to attract clients or make sales or get repeated referral sales, get noticed and so forth. And there's a

There's a thousand ways to do each of those things, literally. There's like a thousand ways to get noticed and attract new clients. One way is sending out daily emails, for example. Simple as that. That's one, but there's a thousand other ways. I always try and just, what I often find, Jonathan, I don't know if you find this as well, but often I'll write on a topic that I need to learn better myself.

Jonathan Stark:
Yeah.

Graham McGregor:
So I found often that I'm talking about stuff the teacher I think learns as much as the student when you send out stuff. So if I want to do something and get better at it, for example, one of the most effective lead generation magnets I've ever used in nearly 40 years of business is interviewing a bunch of experts in a field and then offering that as the lead generation because

If you interview a bunch of experts, I interviewed a bunch of sales and marketing experts back in 2011 some of the best in the world they each shared a great tip on sales and marketing if you talk to a bunch of experts they share some really good ideas amazing ideas and so when I offered that as a lead generation magnet on my website back in 2011 I had literally hundreds and hundreds of people a week signing up to get these ideas from some of the best

Jonathan Stark:
Yes.

Graham McGregor:
and smartest marketing experts in the world. I'm doing that exercise again right now as you know because you're part of it. And so there's ideas everywhere but I guess the easiest way you just think of a framework, in my case my framework if I can call it in three words, it's attract, convert, grow. So you're attracting your clients, you convert some of them into paying customers, you grow the value through repeat and referral sales. So I'm always looking for ideas that can help my clients and me

attract more clients, convert more of them to paying customers and grow the value with repeated referral sales. And that's pretty. And those ideas are everywhere. If you look for them, it's like buying a new car. You buy a white car, suddenly guess what? You see white cars everywhere. Because you're looking. Same thing in marketing. So if you want to, for example, and also I'll often ask my clients,

Jonathan Stark:
Yeah, yes.

Graham McGregor:
What's a great sign? I might be talking about interesting signs on a business vehicle that get your attention and make the business stand out. Like I recall one time I drove behind a van, the big sign on the back said SOS, save your marriage. I thought, what? Save your marriage? What's this on the back of the van? And it turns out it was a service where they offered to put together flat packed furniture for you. They've come into the home because of course

Jonathan Stark:
Yes.

Jonathan Stark:
Hahaha

Graham McGregor:
How many people have had arguments with their spouses or partners or significant other about trying to put together flat pack furniture? A lot of people. So they had this humorous message. So I gave that on a message one day. I saw this funny message. This is what it did. This is what it was about. Here's the business. Here's the website. Caught my attention. What are some? And I said, what are some funny signs you've seen? And I got a hundred messages back over the next week saying, here's some funny signs. So these are.

whole bunch of new material that I could use just by asking my subscribers for feedback and often your subscribers will give you amazing ideas to share as well.

Jonathan Stark:
yeah, 100%. So you mentioned earlier that sometimes you'll put together a sequence of maybe three scheduled emails if you're promoting something. How often do you promote things in your messages?

Graham McGregor:
I promote, I send out seven emails a week, at least four of them a week, sometimes five, are promoting something. Now the way I promote, sometimes I'll make a straight sales offer. I'm saying, I'm doing this, I'm offering this guide or this course or this whatever, the investments this, this is what you get with it. If that's of interest, click here, do this. Other times I'll do a two stage. I have a great new program that'll do XYZ. If you want a free information pack on it,

Just reply to this message or click here depending on what I want to do. So I am promoting something in most messages, but in every single message, whether I'm promoting or not, I invite my readers to take action and do something. I'm a big fan of saying, well, look, here's a concept. There might be a promotional offer in there, but regardless of whether you take advantage of that promotional offer, try this in the next 24 hours. Do something to

Jonathan Stark:
Mm -hmm.

Graham McGregor:
attract people, do something to make people feel special, do something, whatever, take action. So I'm a big fan of taking action. That's the only way you get results.

Jonathan Stark:
love that. Right. Do you ever sell other people's things in your email like affiliate links or paid placements or any kind of ads?

Graham McGregor:
I haven't at this stage, however, that has been a mistake I believe because a lot of people have a lot of things that would really benefit my audience as well and it's things that I don't have or I don't have expertise in. So I am going to be changing that in the near future.

Jonathan Stark:
Interesting. So let's pivot again and talk a little bit about engagement. So how often do look at things like your open rates or other analytics?

Graham McGregor:
Well, it seems to be, I look at it maybe once or twice a month, it seems to be reasonably consistent. It seems to vary around 28 to 35 percent. So I'm thinking, in fact, what was interesting when I switched from a weekly email to a daily email to a five days a week email, my open rates, for some strange reason, went up. At one point I was getting 25 percent, say once a week.

Jonathan Stark:
Yeah.

Graham McGregor:
did five times a week and I went up to 28 percent. thought, well that's interesting. I'm sending out more and more people are opening them. So I don't pay too much attention to open rates. I have been told by a number of people who are far smarter than I am, sometimes you can't even really accurately know what they are because of a whole bunch of technical internet reasons. You can't tell. people are even reading your emails. And I guess I look more at

Jonathan Stark:
Mm -hmm.

Graham McGregor:
How are my sales doing? Are they trending up over time or are they trending down? So as long as they're trending up and I'm making income and my email list is growing, I'm happy. I don't obsess about open rates or anything like that.

Jonathan Stark:
Right.

Jonathan Stark:
Gotcha. How many replies do you get in a week on average?

Graham McGregor:
A lot depends on the topics. On a really, really interesting topic, I might, I guess I get somewhere between 20 and 70 replies in a week. People emailing me about one thing or another, depending on what I'm talking about. The funny thing is this, here's the funny thing. I think I'm thinking, I think sometimes the people

people enjoy my messages because they don't tend to come back and say Graham that was an amazing message. However what I do at least twice a year I bribe my listeners or I bribe ethically bribe if you like my audience and I say look I'd love some feedback on what you've found most useful in the last 12 months tell me what you found most useful what are you getting out of my emails and I've got a free marketing guide on XYZero I've got a free something for you

if you can tell me and I usually at that point I'll get anywhere from 50 to 100 people replying saying Graham your emails are amazing this is why I love them so I get dozens and dozens and dozens and dozens and dozens of people saying they love them and what they've found them valuable they like them because they're simple they're entertaining they're short whatever but only when I ask them for that feedback do they give it they don't normally volunteer without me asking

Jonathan Stark:
Great idea. I love that. I should try that. So of those, that's a lot of replies. think people listening might think, wow, that's a lot of email. So what percentage of these do you respond to and how long does it take?

Graham McGregor:
Or emails, like say you got 70 emails in a week, well that's only 10 a day. That's not very many at all. You can reply, I reply to every single email personally. And depending on the time zone, I like to reply within the hour or less if I can. Obviously if the time zone is such that I'm asleep, obviously I can't respond and have radios while I'm asleep, because I have subscribers around the world. But I like to, I personally respond to every email.

Jonathan Stark:
Mm

Graham McGregor:
And I'm reminded I'm interviewing a very interesting marketing consultant called Alan Weiss shortly, one of the most successful consultants in the entire world. And he makes a point, he says, look, I make a point, he said, of responding to all emails within 90 minutes and all phone calls within 60 minutes. That's what I do. This is one of the most successful consultants in the entire world. And that's what he does. And when I emailed him asking if I could interview him,

Jonathan Stark:
Sure.

Jonathan Stark:
Mm

Graham McGregor:
He came back, sure enough, within 60 minutes and said, sure, that's a great idea. So people as famous and as successful as that can do it within 90 minutes. There's no reason, given the time zone, that you and I can't do something similar. It's so easy. You can do it on your phone. You just say, thanks for email. Really appreciate your idea. Or comment. You can do it on your phone. It's like anyone can respond to emails. You know what? The funny thing is, if you respond fast,

Jonathan Stark:
Great.

Graham McGregor:
That alone is the competitive advantage in most cases because 9 times out of 10 people don't respond fast. Or don't respond at all.

Jonathan Stark:
Great. Do you ever get a negative reply or someone who wants to argue a point or something like that?

Graham McGregor:
Not really. If they want to argue their point and they disagree with something that I'm saying, I'll say, look, hey, appreciate your comment. If ever you find that the messages I'm sending out aren't helpful, unsubscribe.

Jonathan Stark:
Yeah, I know a lot of people are just afraid they're going to get all kinds of pushback and debate about the ideas that they're putting in the world and

Graham McGregor:
I think you mentioned this in an interview I did with you recently that you've got the great advantage of emails that goes out to a lot of people and say you might email 2 ,000 or 3 ,000 or 500, whatever the number of people is, but all the replies come back personally. So there's normally no drama because no one else is seeing the email conversation between you and that person. So it's not like on social media where someone is going to be saying all kinds of negative things and stirring up a fight.

Jonathan Stark:
Yep.

Graham McGregor:
You can't do that if it's just a one -on -one reply, it's impossible.

Jonathan Stark:
Right, there's no reason. Cool, okay, so I know a lot of people listening are probably wondering about how they'll get subscribers and grow the list. So let's go there next. How did you, yeah, how did you get over the hump from feeling like you were writing to nobody to feeling like you had a little bit of an engaged audience?

Graham McGregor:
Well, I think you've got to have you've got to do two things there. You've got to have a very attractive lead magnet that is an incentive for people to join your list. It could be, I think, when I joined your list, you're offering, I think at the time, a six day pricing seminar, how to do value pricing, I think from here is going back a few years. So you've got to have like something that's very, very attractive. So people will join up. Then you need to get other businesses.

Jonathan Stark:
Yep.

Graham McGregor:
to promote that lead magnet to their own audiences. And if it's attractive enough lead magnet, they'll do that happily because you're adding value to the people. Like for example, the lead magnet that are highly available in about two weeks from this interview is called the Unfair Sales Advantage. It's got interviews, me interviewing 21 top sales and marketing experts around the world, each of them sharing their best strategy for getting new clients, making sales, standing out and so forth and so on.

Jonathan Stark:
that's interesting.

Graham McGregor:
And at least half the experts I've interviewed have offered to promote this resource to their own audiences as well. So that'll bring in a few thousand subscribers just by doing that. So you've often got to think, what can I give away that will be beneficial to my target audience and give them a good reason to join my email list? Because just joining an email list by itself, it's not really the

the most valuable incentive you can offer. You've got to give them something else, whether it's a course, a guide, something. And then you want other people to promote that resource for you.

Jonathan Stark:
you

Jonathan Stark:
That's great. So you answered my next question, which is what do do on regular basis to attract more subscribers? So tick that box. Has anything else ever caused a spike in signups other than releasing a new lead magnet?

Graham McGregor:
Yes, when I did my first lead magnet involving experts back in 2011, I used that concept of getting free advice from experts just by asking them basically. I sent an article into the largest newspaper in the country called the New Zealand Herald and they decided to publish it. Then I gave them an idea for another article on marketing and they published that. And cut a long story short,

I ended up writing a weekly marketing column in the largest newspaper in the country for seven years in a row. That got a lot of new sign ups as well, because the newspaper obviously has a wide readership, is the largest in the country, and people read it from all around the world. lots of people. So if you can get into some type of media publication.

The head is very helpful as well.

Jonathan Stark:
Great. So when someone unsubscribes, do you notice that? How does it make you feel? Does that bother you in any way?

Graham McGregor:
I don't take notice of any of I've set it up so I don't even notice unsubscribes. I notice how many people I have on my list and I just I might check that once every week or two. I can see how many people I'm sending out to each day and I think yeah it's roughly it's gone up a little bit in the last week so or it's gone. It's generally you lose subscribers over time through a wide range of reasons.

Jonathan Stark:
same here.

Graham McGregor:
You don't need to worry about it. It's just that's just the way it is. You lose five, 10, 15, 20, 50, depending on your list every week. So you do need to do things to keep growing your list because you'll lose some people. Some people will move, close down, some will die. There's all kinds of reasons. Some will just change their priorities and decide they don't want to listen to you or hear from you anymore, which is fine. So just focus, I think, on what you were saying in my interview with you a while ago. Get up.

Jonathan Stark:
Right.

Graham McGregor:
write something that adds value in some way and just send it out.

Jonathan Stark:
Mm -hmm. Do you ever prune your list? So trimming people out who are sort of appear to be unresponsive and if so, how do you decide?

Graham McGregor:
No, no, because here's what I've found. Sometimes I've found people that have been on my list for four years have suddenly bought. After four years. And there are some people that will never buy, but you know what? Here's the thing. You never know who they know. They might refer a friend to join your list who could end up being one of your biggest clients. You don't know. And it costs nothing to send out emails, like...

Jonathan Stark:
Yeah. Right.

Jonathan Stark:
Yeah, it's so cheap.

Graham McGregor:
Whether it's a thousand or two thousand, it's like, it costs you nothing. Or it might be a tiny bit extra depending on the size of the service that you're using, but it really is. Why not leave them on? I don't see any disadvantage.

Jonathan Stark:
Cool, right? Right. So as we're wrapping up here, I'd love if we could kind of give the listener some recommendations, you know, based on your experience. So what sort of businesses do you think would benefit from doing a daily list?

Graham McGregor:
In all honesty, think any business could do a daily email list. Anyone, whether you're in retail, whether you're in wholesale, whether you're in hospitality, whether you're in professional services, whether you're a tradesperson, you just got to think, you know what? The idea is what could I send that was interesting to my audience each week? So that here's the thing, because if you send it out, something is helpful, valuable, also something that makes them

feel good about you and about themselves that they remember you and if they're thinking about you and they're remembering you, guess what? They can give you referrals and they can give you repeat business. If they're not thinking about you and they're not talking about you, they can't. Simple as that. So if they're not thinking about you, they don't give you referrals. So send something every day that's interesting. They'll enjoy reading. Look, it could be something as simple

Jonathan Stark:
Simple as that.

Graham McGregor:
Here are three unusual ways to get a good night's sleep. That's probably nothing to do with what you're selling, but guess what? 50 % of the population have trouble sleeping. So probably half your readers will find that helpful.

Jonathan Stark:
Mm

Jonathan Stark:
Great. is there any last advice you'd give to someone who's considering starting a list, but they're kind of on the fence?

Graham McGregor:
Well, you can do what I did. If you're bit unsure, get on the list of someone like yourself or someone like me or someone else who sends out daily emails. I think Seth Godinam on his list to get his daily blog, his interesting marketing comment going out. He does it daily. So there's a bunch of people that do things like that. Get on three or four lists like that. See how you find them over the next two, three, four months. If you find you're still enjoying these messages and getting something out of them,

consider then going ahead and doing your own or just bite the bullet and go ahead and start doing it right now.

Jonathan Stark:
Great. This has been wonderful. So where can people go to find out more about you and maybe even sign up for your list?

Graham McGregor:
they can go to www .grahammcgregor .com and by the time this goes live I should be able to download an amazing resource I have there called the Unfair Sales Advantage Volume 1 which has interviews with 21 of the top sales and marketing experts in the world with my compliments.

Jonathan Stark:
Fabulous. Well, thanks again for joining me, Graham.

Graham McGregor:
My pleasure.

Jonathan Stark:
Alright folks, that's it for this time. I hope you join me again next time on Doing Daily. I'm Jonathan Stark.

Graham McGregor:
You happy with that, Jonathan?

Jonathan Stark:
That was fantastic. You even gave me two tips. Two tips that no one's ever said before. Let me stop the recording.

Graham McGregor:
which rhymes were those?